BUH. Ok, so I just tried to post this as a response to Emily's previous post, but apparently it's too long so here it is instead.
Em, thank you for these questions and for sharing them with us. John was writing to an audience that had an extensive knowledge of the Old Testament and for that reason, they would have a greater understanding of what he means and would be able to glean a greater depth of rich information from the text. I, however, am no where near that level of understanding- my Old Testament knowledge is a surface level understanding in most cases and maybe waist deep at best. Yet, there are so many questions I don’t think to ask and miss out on exploring their answers. Here’s my thought process that you prompted with these questions, so at the very least, thank you for encouraging me to dig further up and further in to the text in order to fully experience how intense, rich, vivid, poetic, and elegant it is and maybe there will be something in here that speaks to you. Bear with me though because not much of this is new… in fact it’s basically a repetition of what Darrel has said, Stef just wrote in her post, and stuff you have acknowledged, but here it is anyways.
Why does John greet Jesus the way he does? Something about the text told his audience that without a doubt John had found himself in the presence of his risen Lord and savior. Was it the title “son of man”? Like you said, we see it for the first time in Daniel: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man…” (7:13). Later we find it in Mark as Jesus predicts His death: “He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law…”(8:31) and then perhaps my favorite yet is in Mark 14:62: “Again the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?’ ‘I am,’ said Jesus. ‘And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’” My study bible tells me that ‘Son of Man’ is Jesus’ most common title for himself and is used 81 times (exclusively by Jesus) in the Gospels. I don’t know what the Greek vs the Hebrew is between these different titles and I don’t know why my bible capitalizes ‘Son of Man’ in both the Mark verses and your Daniel verse and not the Daniel verse in my NIV or the Revelation verse in either version. Google or some linguist friend might be able to shed some light on this, but for now, I have no clue. For now that is what I know about the ‘Son of Man’ reference, and maybe that wasn’t enough for John’s audience to initially recognize Jesus either because he continues in his description of the man before him. Jesus is said to be wearing ‘a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest’ which is a description of the attire of a priest or judge such as the priestly garments of Aaron in Exodus which are to signify “dignity and honor” (28:2) and be clothing that are “sacred garments… so they may serve me as priests” (28:4). To me this screams to reference that the man before us is a high priest, in fact, the high priest- Jesus- such as we see in Hebrews: “Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess”(4:14). And then John continues his description of the one who is ‘like a son of man’ by saying that “His head and hair were white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire” and so I find myself going back again to Daniel 7:
“As I looked, ‘thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days (God) took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair on his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him…’” (7:9-10a).
It’s not presumptuous or blasphemous for the man standing before John to be likened to God only because the man standing before John is God.
John's portrayal of the man goes on and I really like the continued references that point to Jesus, especially the last one of the paragraph “his face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance”… I love pictures of our Lord that involve light. From Moses coming down from Mt. Sinai with a glow about his face, to Paul/Saul’s meeting of the Lord on the road to Demascus: “About noon, O king, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. We all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice…” (Acts 26:13-14). But like you said, if these are images that would point the Jewish eye/mind back to the Messiah whom John knew to be Jesus, now what?
We have a direct look at someone who did life and ministry with JESUS and this is the posture that he finds himself in? He doesn’t run up and hug him or attempt to start a conversation or ask him any questions (although I’m sure he had plenty), but he “fell at (Jesus’) feet as though dead”. It doesn’t say he recognized Jesus explicitly, but maybe this is his way of expressing that recognition. So many times throughout the bible (including the passage above from Acts), those who meet Jesus and come before him find themselves at his feet, immobile, needing desperately to be comforted by Jesus as John is by the words “Do not be afraid”. To me, Jesus is saying “Hi John, don’t be afraid, you know who I am- I am all of these things…”. So John’s response, though not one appropriate as a greeting for an old friend, is an appropriate sign of recognition for someone who has realized the return of their savior, and Jesus gives him comfort as would the most reliable, constant, and loving of friends.
Love the post Alyssa, love the questions Em! I also thought that it was interesting that the "son of man" in revelation acted the same way as Jesus on the mountain of transfiguration. John was present during Jesus transfiguration and in Revelation. During Jesus transfiguration the voice of God came from heaven, and Peter, James, and John fell face down to the ground. Then Jesus touched them a stated, "Get up, Don't be afraid". I don't know...I'm thinking that perhaps that could have been a sign or helped John recognized that it was Jesus. In such similar situations, Jesus acted the same. I don't know...just thinking.
ReplyDeletefirst of all, i just read this entire post - until i got to stef's comment - thinking pearl had written it. my b, barlow. my b.
ReplyDeletesecond of all, i stayed quiet until "It doesn’t say he recognized Jesus explicitly, but maybe this is his way of expressing that recognition." and then my characteristic little "hmm" made its escape from my lips. loved that sentence, and the several that followed it.
as i revisit this a few days later, I think my heart was maybe somewhat revealed in my last post. /I/ want my interactions with Jesus to be ones where we relate like old friends. What I think, though, is that I fail to let our interactions be me relating to Him as "someone who has realized the return of [her] savior" and him relating to me with the comfort of "the most reliable, constant, and loving of friends."
buh huh huh. thanks, friend, for revealing my heart. or rather... thanks, Friend. i'm back on my face.
Hahah, well here you go, Em. I'm going to add my two cents to this post as well. I mean, she baited me with the lingling comment, and after like an hour of poking around online and in my Bible, I've got a bunch of disorganized thoughts to share on it... linguistics-wise. Tell me what you think slash if you can make any more sense of the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteFirst, interestingly, Greek and Hebrew both have two words translated frequently as "man". One is aner (Grk)/îych (Heb) and the other is anthropos (Grk)/adâm (Heb). The first set generally refers to a literal man or to maleness, whereas the second ones generally refer to mankind as a whole. (And speaking of Narnia references, the Hebrew word here - adam - does come from the name Adam, as you might expect.) It's the second set that's used in both the Hebrew and Greek versions of "Son of Man", which are "ben adam" and "o huios tou anthropos", respectively.
However, it's not that the first set (aner and îych) are at all uncommon in the Greek and Hebrew texts. In fact, I noticed kind of a weird thing, which is that they're often found in pairs in successive lines of a text. Check it out:
YHWH what is man that You care for him?
Or the son of man that You think of him?
(Psalm 144:2)
God is not a man, that He should lie
Or a son of man, that He should change His mind.
(Numbers 23:19)
There's a long list of more, but you get the idea. What do you think of that? Significance? Just interesting? I'm not really sure what to make of it or if I'm reading too much into word things just because I like them.
And now the interesting bit on the words for "son":
ben (Hebrew): Most basically, refers to the male offspring of parents, although also idiomatically to all children. More than that, it specifies an intimate relationship between father and son. When used with a substantive noun, it becomes an adjective. So "son of five years" translates to "five years old." Thus, "son of man" becomes "human one" ... ish.
uiós (Grk): as opposed to teknon, which refers more basically to genetic offspring, uiós refers to one who embodies the traits or characteristics of the father. Thus, we are instantly teknon of God when we accept Christ into our lives, but we become uiós as we begin to take on his dominant personality characteristics. Jesus is never referred to as teknon of God, while people sometimes are.
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That's all I've got for random lingling info that I don't know what to make of. But here's my one coherent thought, that might be a little interesting. Although Jesus was the Son of Man (remember, son of man in Hebrew = son of Adam) he was the only one that was not actually the son of any human father since Adam. Interesting. So maybe that makes Him more like the real Son of Adam in that He holds the unique quality of Adam of being begotten directly of God - in completely different ways, obviously, but you get the idea.
Alright. That's all I've got. If you read all that, you're a champ, and I'm praying it lets me post all this.
Mother Of, I read it, love it...despite the fact that i have to simplify everything, my brain LOVES the ling ling and historical info. And I really enjoyed your last insight where Jesus is the real Son of Adam thought. I have to wrestle with it a little longer but well done:)
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